The Potter's Army Mary Sue Litmus Test

Canons
Canon characters accused of mary-sueism (for example, Bella Swan) are more often than not a case of the reader disliking the character/work. Therefore, the question specifically addresses original-canons because even though the site encourages it, I imagine those characters would be more likely to be turned into mary-sues. Technically, you could probably include the next generation canons along with those.

Purebloods
Purebloods got points because when you check the numbers, only about 10% of the wizarding world can even pass as pure in a world where everyone knows everyone else's lineage, but on RP boards, the large majority of characters are pureblood.

Non-humans
I actually thought twice about giving points for part giants and part goblins (Professor Flitwick was part goblin, btw), but in the end, I decided that the RPG mary sue is a different creature to the fanfic one. Instead of trying to be perfect, they tend to try to draw attention to themselves, and some people will do that by being different in any way possible.

Teen Parents
Haha. The teen parents thing is mostly because of the flood we had a little while back. I doubt many people would have reason to add that now.

Famous Parents
I didn't want to make the famous parents score too high, partly because famous people have children, and partly because there were several people at Hogwarts who had parents who weren't celebrities, but were well known in the wizarding world.

Scars
Special or unusual scars means what it says. They could be magical, they could have a significant shape, they could be mysterious, or the character could have got them in an unusual way. Like, I used to have a character who had scars from killing her lovers. She'd have got points on that question.

Houses
The reason you get points for house stereotypes is because the stereotypes aren't what get you sorted into your house. Evidence in the books suggests your values and desires are what get you sorted. Also, the stereotypes I gave aren't even the sorting criteria for the houses. Ravenclaw might come close, but you don't have to be intelligent to value knowledge.

Hitting on people
I think a character that hit on anything that moved, literally (Captain Jack syndrome?) would be pretty interesting. But in my experience, people whose characters hit on anyone usually only do it to make the pool of potential romantic interests wider. That's not to say some characters aren't really bi or pansexual, but it is a dominant way of playing bisexual characters.

Wealth
Hmmmm… I don't spend much time around the personal houses forum, so you may know better than me about how many people have made their characters obscenely wealthy. I was just referring to the common assumption that all purebloods are wealthy. That carries over into the name of the family house. I think people think of the Malfoys as a template for pureblood living.

Mudblood
Mudblood is a swear word. It should only be used to insult someone, or if your character is very sure of who they're with.

De-Sueifiers
Personally, I think it's less sueish to write a whole topic about your character struggling with something. Writing about them failing is almost as easy as if they succeeded straight away, it's just less glamorous. You also occasionally get characters who spectacularly fail at everything in an attempt to get people to feel sorry for them.

Points
Considering that you can get up to 179 points on the test before the de-sueifiers, I think 50 is a pretty good place to double check. Also because I've had characters who would have scored over 60 and who have been redeemable after I revised them.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Canons
Canon characters accused of mary-sueism (for example, Bella Swan) are more often than not a case of the reader disliking the character/work. Therefore, the question specifically addresses original-canons because even though the site encourages it, I imagine those characters would be more likely to be turned into mary-sues. Technically, you could probably include the next generation canons along with those.

Alright, agreed then.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Purebloods
Purebloods got points because when you check the numbers, only about 10% of the wizarding world can even pass as pure in a world where everyone knows everyone else's lineage, but on RP boards, the large majority of characters are pureblood.

Forgot about that actually. Agreed.

[quote="Caelani Bittel."]

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Non-humans
I actually thought twice about giving points for part giants and part goblins (Professor Flitwick was part goblin, btw), but in the end, I decided that the RPG mary sue is a different creature to the fanfic one. Instead of trying to be perfect, they tend to try to draw attention to themselves, and some people will do that by being different in any way possible.

Ah, now this changes the concept of the test dramatically. I suppose you're right on the difference between fanfic and RP Mary Sues, as it's more difficult to make a "perfect and everyone loves me" sue when the "everyone loves me" part is based on other people.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Teen Parents
Haha. The teen parents thing is mostly because of the flood we had a little while back. I doubt many people would have reason to add that now.

True enough.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Famous Parents
I didn't want to make the famous parents score too high, partly because famous people have children, and partly because there were several people at Hogwarts who had parents who weren't celebrities, but were well known in the wizarding world.

I suppose. I was thinking more along the lines of +2 for every famous parent in wizard/muggle world, +4 for every parent famous in both. Also, being married to someone famous wouldn't count (you wouldn't become famous for marrying a famous person, at least not for the purpose of the test)

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Scars
Special or unusual scars means what it says. They could be magical, they could have a significant shape, they could be mysterious, or the character could have got them in an unusual way. Like, I used to have a character who had scars from killing her lovers. She'd have got points on that question.

All right. I wasn't sure wether to give Keith points for this (as he has several scars, but for mundane reasons, ie getting burned or tripping and hitting his head on a table)

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Houses
The reason you get points for house stereotypes is because the stereotypes aren't what get you sorted into your house. Evidence in the books suggests your values and desires are what get you sorted. Also, the stereotypes I gave aren't even the sorting criteria for the houses. Ravenclaw might come close, but you don't have to be intelligent to value knowledge.

I guess I wasn't clear here. I meant more like making your character stereotype other characters because of their house: "Oh she's a Slytherin? No thanks, I don't hang out with dark wizards." Or: "You're in Hufflepuff? *Giggles* Loser." I don't think that would be too sue-ish.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Hitting on people
I think a character that hit on anything that moved, literally (Captain Jack syndrome?) would be pretty interesting. But in my experience, people whose characters hit on anyone usually only do it to make the pool of potential romantic interests wider. That's not to say some characters aren't really bi or pansexual, but it is a dominant way of playing bisexual characters.

I suppose you're right. Does PA have any bisexual characters?

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Wealth
Hmmmm… I don't spend much time around the personal houses forum, so you may know better than me about how many people have made their characters obscenely wealthy. I was just referring to the common assumption that all purebloods are wealthy. That carries over into the name of the family house. I think people think of the Malfoys as a template for pureblood living.

Such as Malfoy Manner? I dunno, I guess it makes sense.

Though if you think of it, Pure-blood families might actually be wealthier on average. Imagine they begin with a lot of money, but since they interbreed so much the money stays in a tighter knit group. As opposed to those who marry muggles, and have to spread the money out.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Mudblood
Mudblood is a swear word. It should only be used to insult someone, or if your character is very sure of who they're with.

Yeah, but is this really a sue-ish trait? I don't consider Draco a Sue. (though again, this might come down to the difference between RP Sues and Fanfic Sues)

Caelani Bittel. wrote:De-Sueifiers
Personally, I think it's less sueish to write a whole topic about your character struggling with something. Writing about them failing is almost as easy as if they succeeded straight away, it's just less glamorous. You also occasionally get characters who spectacularly fail at everything in an attempt to get people to feel sorry for them.

Heh. True.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Points
Considering that you can get up to 179 points on the test before the de-sueifiers, I think 50 is a pretty good place to double check. Also because I've had characters who would have scored over 60 and who have been redeemable after I revised them.

Alright, fair enough. I suppose I think it's too low because I tested Keith, a character I try to keep as normal as possible.

Keith Nicholas wrote:
I suppose you're right. Does PA have any bisexual characters?

I believe we've had a few gay characters. My original plan was for Matt and Spencer to be bisexuals but I had no idea how the site would take it. But we've never actually had bisexual characters. We should add something like that in the app I think.

my other character Zach (you may have thought he was gay since he was dating Godric) is bisexual and even Ne'Os is bisexual but we don't think he has the capacity to feel love anymore (might change when he comes back since death will have changed his mind on evil and good a bit.) So yes we have some.

Keith, there's a question about judging others based on their house. It's the first one in the personality section.

And we don't know that witches and wizards start off wealthier. Since JKR incorporated witch hunting into the back-plot of the books, you could probably make an argument that they should be poorer.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:Keith, there's a question about judging others based on their house. It's the first one in the personality section.

Yes, but it adds points to your character. I was just wondering how this is a sue trait.

Caelani Bittel. wrote:And we don't know that witches and wizards start off wealthier. Since JKR incorporated witch hunting into the back-plot of the books, you could probably make an argument that they should be poorer.

You can make an argument for just about anything I suppose. The only way to know for sure is if JKR tells us, so there's really no point in arguing about it.

lolz, James Wake got an 18. I'm surprised he didn't score higher (Alchemic Arm anybody?)

Ne'Os 19
Zack 22

Matthew G. Lestrange wrote:

Keith Nicholas wrote:
I suppose you're right. Does PA have any bisexual characters?

I believe we've had a few gay characters. My original plan was for Matt and Spencer to be bisexuals but I had no idea how the site would take it. But we've never actually had bisexual characters. We should add something like that in the app I think.

We've had bisexual charaters in the past, I don't think that it will be a problem..

Brienne: 4
Daniel: 0
Luna-Lorrie: -1